BT
Bill T
Active since Feb 2023
9
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0
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Reviews
9 reviews5 months ago
Ethiopians ground and air staff are amazing; back office is another story
Our history with Ethiopian Airlines *********************************** We have flown Ethiopian Airlines since 2015 when visiting Addis, Bahir Dar and Lalibela. We were especially impressed that one flight from Addis to Bahir Dar, when the plane was full, it left early! A first and only ever for air travel :-D We have since flown Ethiopian to India and to Barcelona, and perhaps other times, too (sorry, I cannot remember). My frequent flier # with them is 10095610814. Our praise for Ethiopian Airlines ********************************* Let us start by stating very firmly that on-the-ground and in-the-air staff of Ethiopian Airlines is on par with the best in the world: friendly and professional. We cannot emphasise this enough. We can also say the same of the airport renovation in Addis: wow! While the connections may appear to be a bit tight, they always work! Even a 30 minute connection! And not a bag lost! After 4-8 hours common overlay at Doha and Abu Dabai, 1-1.5 hours means door to door. It's truly wonderful. And going through Addis to Europe, with the short connections, means hours off overall travel time at affordable prices with great service. It's a no brainer! This is why we keep flying Ethiopian. Sure, the mobile app drives us crazy, and frequently has incorrect or incomplete data, it still kinda works. And the AI WhatsApp and email chatbots suck so bad! I mean it. They are truly useless for all but the most mundane of tasks. I like buying tickets on the website because it's easy and I can compare options easily. We also like buying directly from the airline instead of an online or offline broker. but when we had to deal directly with back office sales and support, all of the Good Will built with many years went down a very bad path. Our recent struggle with Ethiopian Airlines ******************************************* On our last trip, we flew from Cape Town to Barcelona via Addis and Rome. Midway through a 3-week rock climbing trip in Catalunya, my wife had an unlucky fall and fractured her heel on 7 Oct. After the Spanish ER had put her in a hard slab on 8 Oct, an open cast meant to allow for swelling in order to reduce swelling, she was issued a Fit to Fly certificate. We looked on the app to see how much it would cost to fly a week early: as much for one person to change as it cost for all 3 of us roundtrip! So we stuck it out another week, and it was suggested that we upgrade her to Business Class so she could put her foot up to reduce swelling. We couldn't figure out how to do that with the app. Either upgrade all of us or not at all. We asked chatGPT what to do, and it suggested the wording "split the ticket". We quickly called Ethiopian Airlines via the Barcelona airport and eventually got through to Javier at the Madrid office and asked him to split the ticket so we could upgrade my wife's ticket. Javier sent through a link to a medical form which we filled out and returned. We got an automatic reference wf_109451246 then nothing. We wanted to purchase the upgrade because our insurance had agreed to pay for it. On 11 Oct, frustrated as to why nothing came back, as we had wanted to purchase immediately, we forwarded the email with the filled form we had already submitted to Javier, someone named Chema who is apparently reservas@airlinesairmat.com, and also management: airmat@airlinesairmat.com, mayte@airlinesairmat.com. ========================================================================================= From 11 Oct until 14 Oct we got not a single response until I did the following out of desperation: I contacted a former Ethiopian PhD student of mine in Cape Town, who called a friend, who called a friend . . . until we got the WhatsApp number of someone named Meseret. The only time Chema would reply to us was when we texted Meseret first; which happened that day. Chema told us two days before the flight home on 16 Oct that yes, we could upgrade my wife's ticket for 2000 euros and to please send credit card details. After confirming that our international travel insurance back home would cover it, I sent through the details and agreed to pay for the upgrade. A few hours later, after I had to ping Meseret again to get Chema to reply, we were told sorry, that fare was no longer available and we had to pay 3000 euros! Horrors! ========================================================================================= I confirmed again that insurance would pay, and then told Chema we agreed. We felt taken hostage due to the pain and suffering of my wife's fracture; no matter that insurance would eventually reimburse us for the upgrade (which they still, haven't by the way, a month later - see our HelloPeter post on Discovery Health). Chema at Ethiopian Airlines issued the upgraded ticket the day before the flight home, *a full week after* we had first asked to do the upgrade. We find this unacceptable and are not sure whether we will fly Ethiopian Airlines again despite all the wonderful service we have had since 2015 until this single incident. Needless to say, the flights home, all 3 of them, with wheelchair service at all 4 airports, including Business Class lounge access for my wife, was *fantastic* as usual; even better with escorts through security and immigration. The main frustration/disappointment points were a) the long no-response times until we WhatsApp'd a manager whose number we obtained through our personal Ethiopian network; and b) the 2000 to 3000 euro price hike a week after we initially asked to upgrade. Recommendations to improve service: - upgrade the WhatsApp and email bot AI to something useable for customers with breakout to a live agent. - your support staff must respond immediately; not at the prodding of a manager whose number we got through a personal network. - don't hold a passenger hostage to a price increase by creating and/or feigning delays. Can you see why we are so suspicious after waiting a week to upgrade a ticket, and then as soon as we are able to provide credit card details be confronted with a price hike? It came across as exploitative and manipulative; it could even be considered ******ion. - reprimand Chema for not being responsive; and Javier for not following up to issue the ticket when we first called and returned the medical form. - commend Meseret for getting us some joy. - as for ground and air staff, keep treating them as nicely as they treat us. How to fix this with us? Issue us a proper public apology and refund us the 1000 euro price hike which we will then pass on to our insurance company when and if they reimburse us for the 3000. We agreed to the 2000 first; and then only agreed to the 3000 because we felt we had no choice under the circumstances. You would do it, too, if a similar accident happened to one of your family. Bill and Lizanne Ethiopian Airlines reference wf_109451246
0 replies
5 months ago
From Wonderful with MSO to Horrible with Discovery to Unresolved with International Travel benefit.
From Wonderful with MSO to Horrible with Discovery to Unresolved with International Travel benefit. The short of it is that we had to bring someone to ER mid-trip whilst overseas with a fractured heel over a month ago. MSO, who is first point of contact for Discovery Health International Travel benefit, handled it so well over WhatsApp and email whilst at the ER (we didn't even have to pay to be seen) and assuring us Discovery would cover the upgrade to business class to put the leg up to reduce swelling; we had to buy on credit and would be reimbursed later. Upon return to SA, Discovery covered the surgery. We were so happy to have all that support . . . until it came time for Discovery to pay up. The overseas hospital has yet to be paid. The business class upgrade was 3000 euros! Still unreimbursed a month later; and credit card payment went off today. We are disappointed to say the least. Here's a longer version: Overseas communication with MSO, who handle the international travel benefit, was amazing. If it were an AI chatbot, it was a really good one. However, it felt like humans: there were two that had different shifts. Of course they immediately asked what happened: I was hesitant to tell them it was a rock climbing accident; yet that was the truth. They said it's covered. Whew. They even texted back to check up on my wife. More than once! When the flight upgrade idea was broached, and the Fit to Fly was issued by the ER doctor, they said "yes, we'll cover it"; even when the price shifted upwards (from 2 to 3 thousand euros!), they texted back yes. We couldn't believe it. The communication over WhatsApp was so easy and convenient. We felt so well taken care of. We came back home and saw the orthopod the following morning. Scheduled for surgery the following week. It really was stressful: dealing with the injury whilst overseas, 3 flights home (which went really well, btw), in for surgery . . . all the paperwork for the insurance, the flight, me dealing with work, her with missing work and not being able to put weight on the foot . . . The surgery was successful; likely very much due to the swelling having gone down with the quick diagnosis of fracture with x-ray and CT scan at the overseas ER, the flight upgrade (for her only! come on!), the airport wheelchairs, etc. A week or so after return, we submitted all required paperwork, forms and invoices/receipts, to claims@discovery on 23 Oct. And then it all started to go downhill fast. Firstly, we found out that the hospital overseas had not been paid. How? They emailed us. We had assumed MSO/Discovery had taken care of it because MSO and the hospital had emailed one another their respective forms whilst we were in the queue and triage. Nope. And we were told by Discovery to pay the 100 euro deductible directly the hospital. We asked MSO and then Discovery (because MSO doesn't get involved with payments) to please pay the full 300 euro hospital bill and let us pay them back the deductible locally; and Discovery said no. We pay the hospital 100 and they will pay 200. We were in the ER 8 Oct. It's 15 Nov. Discovery still hasn't paid them yet. Secondly, on 24 Oct, the day after we first submitted the documentation, Discovery asked for the flight upgrade tickets and invoices. Huh? These had already been sent the day before. We resent them. 7-10 working days they said. And again. And again. Two weeks later, on a Friday, a small payment of about R1000 was made into my bank account, with no email telling us what it was for. We guessed it was for the prescribed hospital pain meds and crutches that was on the claim form along with the roughly R58000 for the flight upgrade. After the weekend, on Monday, we finally got the email/pdf confirming that yes, it was about R3000 claim less the 100 euros deductible (2nd deductible) for hospital expenses. Let's be clear here: the airfare upgrade item was on the *same claim form* originally submitted on 23 Oct. We had called about every 2nd or 3rd day or so to follow up since submission. Over a span of 3 weeks, we were asked to resubmit the upgrade tickets/invoices *a total of 4 times* and a full week after that partial payment less deductible, we finally were told by Discovery that the upgrade reimbur*****t line item was up for review because the necessary paperwork was not submitted. Come on! We submitted it 4 times! We filed a complaint with Discovery. How could they process the pain meds and crutches reimbur*****t and not the upgrade when all of the documents were submitted together in a single zip twice, and the tickets on their own separately two more times? Thirdly, it felt like every single call with Discovery was dropped mid-conversation. And even when they called us back after a dropped call, e.g. 10 minutes later, even that call was dropped. Absolutely maddening. Every single call interrupted unexpectedly. Why? Today, only a day after conveying that we wanted to lodge a formal complaint, contact the ombudsman and submit this review to Hellopeter, we got the call from complaints division. Your airfare upgrade reimbur*****t has been approved. And . . . we are still awaiting the payment. Our credit card bill payment fired today with the roughly R58000 (3000 euros) in the mix. If we had not pulled from Allan Gray savings a week ago already, we would have incurred massive credit card penalties/ interest. We are fortunate to have the privilege of such savings; and our wits about us to know when the payment is scheduled to make a plan to avoid paying interest. We remain so thankful that Discovery's International Travel benefit helped us so much whilst overseas - and we have Coastal Core. This travel benefit appears ubiquitous across their offerings. However, the overseas hospital is still unpaid, we have not been fully reimbursed for a claim submitted 3 weeks ago, it appears the deductible is taken for every part of the process and Discovery's phone support is so consistently interrupted we cannot seem to make headway in a timeous manner. It's no surprise that thankfulness has turned to frustration and disappointment. Even if and when Discovery eventually reimburses us (less the deductible for a third time?), it will be hard to forget how difficult it was to get it. And if they don't pay? Well, it will be even worse to have to go through all the emails, WhatsApps, slips and payments to submit the timeline to the ombudsman to take legal action. We just wanted to share all this with you, and have these comments and recommendations for Discovery to improve their handling of situations like this with others: - kudos for the international travel benefit; keep it for as many health cover plans as possible. - kudos for covering a rock climbing incident. We have been rock climbing for 33 years and this is the first broken bone ever; and we climb a lot. A lot. - kudos for MSO handling it so well over WhatsApp and email. Really. Especially whilst in the hospital and traveling afterwards. - please don't tell us it's 7-10 working days when it's not. - please don't use AI to read and respond to emails. - please don't ask us to resubmit the same documentation multiple times; it comes across as you stalling for time. - please don't process only part of the claim one bit at a time and charge the deductible again and again. - please don't 'accidentally' hang up on us when we call you or you call us. It felt like every time the conversation got heated, it dropped. Coincidence? Just don't let it happen. - please don't tell us you will pay for something and then not do it; or delay it unnecessarily. - We suggest that Discovery learn from MSO: be responsive and empathetic; follow up (that was the best, really). If MSO used AI chatbots with us, get their software. If MSO support chats were with humans, learn from them. - When you say 7-10 working days, deliver to that timeline. - Lastly, pay up: the hospital ER overseas and us. This is why we've paid you monthly for 25 years, more or less. Bill and Lizanne Tucker. Discovery # 077482210
106 replies
11 months ago
Vox holds former customer hostage
After several years of intermittent connectivity issues, we decided to switch from Vox to Afrihost. We requested Vox to cancel the service as of 31 May, received the cancellation note, and indeed woke up this morning to no internet. However, Vox did not release the line so that Afrihost can take it over. In effect, Vox has stopped the service and preventing us from continuing with another ISP. This is wrong and must be fixed immediately. I ha e already spent 3 hours on the phone. Vox technical support refuses to help. Vumatel says it's an ISP issue. Afrihost says they can't do it and are waiting for Vumatel. This is what Afrihost support tells me now: "I also see on the Vumatel portal start date shows 2025/06/07 23:00 which means that is when VOX will release your line" Really? they cancelled our service then prevent me from using the fibre for another week? How can a customer be held hostage like this?
212 replies
13 months ago
After two years of giving them chance after chance, enough is enough. we won't go back.
We kitted out an old Land Cruiser wagon with a OneNav and 4 JBL speakers in the doors with wooden panels, mic on the steering column and camera in the rear bumper at Car Audio Warehouse in Bellville 2 years ago. We have had to bring it back at least 6 times as the front driver side speaker goes silent. Not blown. Silent. The OneNav also skips constantly on Bluetooth/Wi-Fi and when a phone is plugged into its USB in the cubby hole, it plays alright ... until it resets itself about every 10-15 minutes. Ok. we appear to have purchased an outdated OneNav that runs Android 12. Our bad. The JBLs are awesome, though. But we returned the car so many times for that speaker. They said it's the rain coming down the door. They say they replaced the cable each time. It works for a few months then nothing. Again and again. They don't charge us either. Then we bring it to our auto electrician who doesn't normally do audio. They found the speaker cables cheaply made with barely any copper inside the sheath. We replaced all of the speaker cables. The OneNav still sucks. But at least when it's not skipping or rebooting itself, the music sounds great from 4 JBLs and not 3. I sent Car Audio Warehouse the invoice for the electrician's work, pictures of their cheap cabling compared to proper speaker cable with solid copper cores, and a soundbite of the skipping audio, asking for the owner (not the first time) to respond before we post on HelloPeter and a week later, nothing. After two years of giving them chance after chance, enough is enough. we won't go back.
0 replies
32 months ago
not a very pleasant experience with R & D Offroad
We need you to know that we are not happy with the experience of bringing our Land Cruiser to R&D to fit accessories. Here's why. First, allow us to copy and paste the original request for quote that we sent to three different shops at the end of Feb 2023 after having purchased a 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser 76 series wagon: """ - 2nd battery (deep cycle gel) in a tray fitted in the engine bay, with a) isolator; b) plug panel at the back for fridge (NL), USB and other standard plugs; and c) main battery override with a push button in or under the dash. - ARB air compressor mounted alongside the 2nd battery in engine bay - roof rack (3/4, e.g. 1400 x 1600) that can take surf boards, 2nd tyre, etc. and be able to fit brackets for jerry cans, jack and wraparound awning at a later stage. - ladder on the back """ R&D came highly recommended from a couple friends, and so when R&D responded with the most expensive quote, we decided to suck it up and go for it with the belief that you get what you pay for. Upon drop off, we spent more time being toured around the premises than discussing the work to be done. Their premises are huge, like a complex or a campus; one building per task, e.g. they add a larger 5th gear to your gearbox, put on lift kits, make/sell Gobi-X bumpers, etc., fit extras, design and install cabinet systems, on and on - it's huge. All extras for 4x4s. It's a massive sales pitch. The front office has multiple stations for salespeople, and that's all we interact with. Sales. Sales. Sales. And herein lay the main problem: we were sold what *they* wanted to sell and not what *we* wanted to buy: We asked for an under bonnet ARB air compressor, got the mobile one mounted with no pressure gauge and no dust cap; an incomplete system that requires the customer to return to purchase more to get a functional system or elsewhere (which we did). We asked for ¾ roof rack, got a full-sized one. Why? Because we can remove a section, we were told. We asked for a ladder on the back door and it was mounted skew. This was blatant evidence of poor quality control; and was an eyesore every time we lifted the garage door. Perhaps the most egregious part of the sale was for the 2nd battery setup to charge accessories and override the main battery if flat or completely dead. This was also the most expensive part of the job. We asked for a 2nd battery override like we had on old 4x4 Condor. It was a simple system that never failed in 18 years. Instead, we got a less than functional over-the-top DC-DC system w/solenoid with equally over-the-top wiring and fuses. Sure, it looks great, but . . . the main override fuse was too low capacity and when my wife left the lights on and drained the main battery, the override switch did not work because it blew the fuse. when the in-dash button was depressed. When she called R&D, she was asked to jump from the 2nd battery to the main battery with jumper cables! This is clearly not what we paid for. Imo, it was and remains all fluff and overkill; and still doesn’t do what we want: instead of overriding the main battery, it apparently *charges* the main battery and can take a while, and also fail if the main battery is really dead. In addition, the override button/switch was also mounted sideways and is in the wrong place on the dash. Why DC/DC? We didn’t ask for that, and even if we did accept the quote with it, it didn't even include an Anderson plug for a solar panel. Again, selling an expensive incomplete system with a need to purchase more for completeness (here we mean the Anderson plug not the panel); and in this case again, one with poor quality control. Upon drop off, we asked for a USB charging unit in the back that doesn't vampire the 2nd battery. However, both the USB plug and the DC/DC continually vampire battery 24-7. Again, our request was ignored. One thing that almost went well was talking about where to place an Anderson plug and stash the fridge cable in the back. Since we had installed new speakers in the doors, we elected to remove one of the stock speakers in the rear and the salesman 3D printed a cubbyhole box with a magnetic flap to store the cable. Great idea, too. We asked for a notch put in the magnetic flap so we could close it when the cable was pulled out to run the fridge. He didn’t do it; just said no, and it had to stay open to run the cable to the fridge. Why? We took the vehicle somewhere else to get the 2nd battery setup sorted out, install an Anderson plug on the front bumper for a solar panel, get a tyre gauge for the compressor, and put a notch in the fridge cable box flap. Small things, yes, yet still annoying, time consuming and incurring yet more cost. Why somewhere else? Because every time we looked at that skew ladder, every time we thought of the battery override not working, every time we saw the roof rack bigger than we wanted, every time we used the air compressor, we got more and more upset and didn't feel like we would get the service and quality control at R&D that we thought we had paid for. 6 months later, I felt calm enough to ask and go back and get the ladder straightened and the 2nd battery setup addressed. It took so long (I waited there for 5 hours), I didn't ask them to move the override switch to an upright position next to the ignition. However, when I tested the lights-left-on alarm speaker, it was faulty; and another guy that worked there (don't know his name) spent a good hour or two troubleshooting it and sorted it out; it was not related to the 2nd battery work like I had thought. Now, that's the kind of service I wish we had received from Day 1. In my opinion, too little too late. And the incomprehensible reality of great service given for a R200 job and **** service for a R55000 job. In the end, we are finally ok with what we got. We do feel we paid too much for what we got, and also that we were mostly sold what the salesperson wanted to sell rather than what we actually wanted; and further, that the quality control of the work done was shoddy. The actual components are all top notch. Cannot fault them there. Reflecting upon it all now (it's end of Aug now), I think the worst part of the experience was not feeling comfortable enough to go back and have things sorted earlier. The sales area felt falsely polite and so pushy like the expectation was as if we were there to spend just to spend; instead of get what we wanted. We took so long to return perhaps because we didn't want that passive aggressive sales pitch again; and also the friction caused by following friends' recommendations to go with R&D, and then not being happy doing so. When something goes wrong at any customer/vendor situation, and there's a genuine human connection, it's relatively easy to go back and sort things out. We didn't and don't feel that way with R and D Offroad. I doubt we'll go back.
0 replies
32 months ago
not a very pleasant experience with R&D Offorad
We need you to know that we are not happy with the experience of bringing our Land Cruiser to R&D Offroad to fit accessories. Here's why. First, allow us to copy and paste the original request for quote that we sent to three different shops at the end of Feb 2023 after having purchased a 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser 76 series wagon: - 2nd battery (deep cycle gel) in a tray fitted in the engine bay, with a) isolator; b) plug panel at the back for fridge (NL), USB and other standard plugs; and c) main battery override with a push button in or under the dash. - ARB air compressor mounted alongside the 2nd battery in engine bay - roof rack (3/4, e.g. 1400 x 1600) that can take surf boards, 2nd tyre, etc. and be able to fit brackets for jerry cans, jack and wraparound awning at a later stage. - ladder on the back R&D Offroad came highly recommended from a couple friends, and so when R&D responded with the most expensive quote, we decided to suck it up and go for it with the belief that you get what you pay for. Upon drop off, we were compelled to spend more time being toured around the premises than discussing the work to be done. Their premises are huge, like a complex or a campus; one building per task, e.g. they add a larger 5th gear to your gearbox, put on lift kits, make/sell Gobi-X bumpers, etc., fit extras, design and install cabinet systems, on and on - it's huge. All extras for 4x4s. It's a massive sales pitch. The front office has multiple stations for salespeople, and that's all we interact with. Sales. Sales. Sales. And herein lay the main problem: we were sold what *they* want to sell and not what *we* want to buy: - We asked for an under bonnet ARB air compressor, and got the mobile one mounted with no pressure gauge and no dust cap; an incomplete system that requires us to return to purchase more to get a functional system or elsewhere (which we did). - We asked for ¾ roof rack, got a full-sized one. Why? Because we can remove a section, we were told (and ignored). - We asked for a ladder on the back door and it was mounted skew. This was evidence of poor quality control; and was an eyesore every time we lifted the garage door. - Perhaps the most egregious part of the sale was for the 2nd battery setup to charge accessories and override the main battery if flat or completely dead. This was also the most expensive part of the job. We asked for a 2nd battery override like we had on our old 4x4 Condor. It was a simple system that never failed in 18 years. Instead, we got an over-the-top DC-DC system w/solenoid with equally over-the-top wiring and fuses. Sure, it looks great, but it didn't work! It seems the main override fuse was too low capacity and when my wife left the lights on and drained the main battery, the override switch did not work because it blew the fuse when the in-dash button was depressed. When she called R&D Offroad, she was instructed to jump from the 2nd battery to the main battery with jumper cables! This is clearly not what we paid for. Imo, it was and remains fluff and overkill; and still doesn’t do what we want: instead of overriding the main battery, it apparently *charges* the main battery, which can take a while; and also fail if the main battery is truly dead. We asked for battery override and got a charge-the-main battery setup. In addition, the override button/switch was also mounted sideways and is in a poor place on the dash nowhere near the ignition where it belongs; and upright as well. Why an expensive DC/DC system that we did not have on the Condor? We didn’t ask for that, and even if we did accept the quote with it, it didn't even include an Anderson plug for a solar panel, which is the point of DC-DC, right? Again, selling an expensive incomplete system with a need to purchase more for completeness (here we mean the Anderson plug not the solar panel); and in this case again, one designed poorly and with poor quality control. - Upon drop off, we asked for a USB charging plug in the back that doesn't vampire the 2nd battery to which it is connected. However, both the USB plug and the DC/DC box continually vampire battery 24-7. Again, our request was ignored; in this case to maintain 2nd battery. - One thing that almost went well was about where to place an Anderson plug and the fridge cable in the back. Since we had installed new speakers in the doors, we elected to remove one of the stock speakers in the rear and insert a 3D-printed cubbyhole box with a magnetic flap to hold the plug and also store the cable. Great idea. We asked for a notch put in the magnetic flap so we could close it when the cable was pulled out to run the fridge. Again - request ignored, and it had to stay open to run the cable to the fridge. We took the vehicle somewhere else to get the 2nd battery setup sorted, install an Anderson plug on the front bumper for a solar panel, get a tyre gauge for the compressor, and put a notch in the fridge cable box flap. Small things, yes, yet still annoying, time consuming and incurring yet more cost. Why somewhere else? Because every time we looked at that skew ladder, every time we thought of the battery override not working, every time we saw the roof rack bigger than we wanted, every time we used the air compressor, we got more and more upset and didn't feel like we would get the service and quality control at R&D Offroad that we thought we had paid for. 6 months later, I felt calm enough to go back and ask to get the ladder straightened and the 2nd battery setup addressed (again). It took so long, I waited there for 5 hours, I didn't ask them to move the override switch to a better (and upright) position next to the ignition. However, when I tested the lights-left-on alarm speaker, it was faulty; and someone (other than our salesman) that worked there spent a good hour or two troubleshooting it and sorted it out. It was not related to the 2nd battery work like I had thought. Now, that's the kind of service I wish we had received from Day 1. In my opinion, too little too late. And the incomprehensible conundrum of great service given for a R250 job and **** service for a R55000 job. In the end, we are finally ok with what we got. We do, however, feel we paid too much for what we got, and also that we were mostly sold what the salesperson wanted to sell rather than what we actually wanted; and further, that the quality control of the work done was shoddy. The actual components are all top notch. Cannot fault them there. The fix of the skew ladder and hopefully the 2nd battery setup appears to be ok a few weeks later. And the lights-on alarm works like a charm. Reflecting upon it all now (it's end of Aug now), I think the worst part of the experience was not feeling comfortable enough to go back and have things sorted earlier. The salesmen across the board felt falsely polite and pushy like the expectation were as if we customers were there to spend just to spend; instead of get what we want. We took so long to return perhaps because we didn't want that passive aggressive sales pitch again; and also the friction caused by following friends' recommendations to go with R&D Offroad, and then not being happy doing so. When something goes wrong at any customer/vendor situation, and there's a genuine human connection and mutual intent, it's relatively easy to go back and sort things out. We didn't and don't feel that way with R&D Offroad. I doubt we'll go back.
131 replies
33 months ago
WeBuyCars stuffs up big time and requires a call to CEO to sort it out
Note I am trying to post this again as HelloPeter pulled it citing some bizaare reason about the spelling of the name of the company. Thu 9 Feb, 2023 RE: Open letter wrt our WeBuyCars purchase and delivery experience To: whom it may concern Cc: Faan van der Walt, WeBuyCars (WBC) CEO Henry Harber, WBC Corporate Manager Amara Patel, WBC Corporate Customer Care Bartel Wolmarans, WBC PE Branch General Manager Rudi Bezuidenhout, WBC PE Branch Sales Manager Fabian Rademeyer, WBC PE Branch Sales Executive Bradley ???, WBC PE Branch Junior Sales assistant Nina Meaker, WBC PE Branch Receptionist Rhode Bester, TAC MIOSA HelloPeter.com Land Cruiser Club of South Africa (LCCSA) Introduction This letter serves to document our experience purchasing and receiving a car from WeBuyCars.co.za (WBC) from our perspective. We fully realise that buying a car over the Internet entails a physical and virtual distance whereby WhatsApp messages, emails and even phone calls do not necessarily reflect a true picture of what happens on the ground. Therefore, up front, we must emphasise that the events described below, actions and feelings associated with them, are our impressions of them all. Our context We have been saving to buy this Land Cruiser for 15 years. When we met 30 years ago in Arizona, USA, I had a 1976 FJ40 Land Cruiser. We couldn’t bring it over in 1996 when we moved to South Africa because of the wheel column being on the ‘wrong’ side. We’ve driven a 4x4 Toyota Condor for 17 years. When we sold it last month, 2 days later, this maroon Land Cruiser popped up on WeBuyCars. We had been looking for a Toyota Prado or Land Cruiser 76 series for about a year, mostly online and at used car dealerships around Cape Town. After doing that, and also trying to sell our Condor online, both unsuccessfully with very bad experiences all around, a friend recommended we try WeBuyCars. So we did. And our experience has been a sandwich of the thrill of buying a car we had wanted for so long, then frustrating and less than ideal in several significant ways for 3 and half weeks, then the thrill of finally receiving it. Our experience We found this Land Cruiser online on Sat 14 Jan, 2023. We reserved the car on Sun 15 Jan with a reservation fee paid via Ozow. We did not receive any confirmation of the payment. In fact, the car still showed online as being for sale, not a purchase in progress as we had seen for other cars on WeBuyCars.co.za. After we called the salesman, Fabian Rademeyer, at the PE WBC branch to inform him of this, the car was removed from the website. We asked him how much we needed to pay to fully purchase the car, and we did so on Mon 16 Jan. We paid in full, again with no automated email confirmation informing us of the payment/purchase, no invoice, nothing. We asked about shipping to Cape Town and were given a quote from TAC. We accepted the quote and paid them in full on Tue 17 Jan, sending proof of payment, again, via email, by then to both Fabian and Nina Meaker, whom we find out much later is not a sales executive; she's the front receptionist. Fabian assured us we would receive the car in 8-11 days. That was on Mon 16 Jan. A *week later*, our friend Brian, who had test driven the car on Sun 15 Jan (and discovered a dead battery prevented it from starting, and Fabian quickly arranged a replacement), saw the car still sitting in the WBC lot. So we called Fabian and Nina and by this time, a third person was involved, a junior sales assistant named Bradley, and told them again, hey, we had paid TAC and the car should be on a transport to Cape Town. By this time, we had filled out and signed a number of forms with WBC via Nina and Bradley. Apparently, a TAC transport did not pick up the car from the WBC depot, and Fabian and Bradley eventually brought it to their depot. *Another week later*, the car was still sitting at the TAC depot. Rhode Bester at TAC called us Sat 4 Feb (after hours, mind you) and told us WBC PE branch had still not sent the paperwork to enable her to ship the car to us. She recommended we call the Sales Manager Rudi Bezuidenhout, which we did, and he finally called us back on Sunday or Monday and feebly apologised. Meanwhile, we had registered a case with MIOSA the previous Thursday. We also sent a brief outline of the experience to customercare@webuycars.co.za, whom we had cc’d on almost all correspondence with the PE branch because nothing was happening! All we got for 2 weeks were automated acknowledgements, and so customer service whatsoever. Amara Patel from corporate customer care finally responded (after nearly 2 weeks of automated replies) and said the car would reach us within 72 hours, by close of business on Monday. We told Rudi all of this, and told both Rudi and Rhode that we think we wanted our money back because we felt like it had been ****** from us. We paid in good faith, and had received . . . nothing! *A third week later*, on Mon 6 Feb, I called a lawyer for advice and he advised us to a) call WBC CEO Faan van der Walt to explain our situation since we were not finding joy with PE branch nor corporate customer care; b) what was happening was a breach of contract, and not theft; c) we could sue for our money; and d) the best way to get WBC to learn from this experience would be to send this very letter to HelloPeter.com (which we have done). So I did WhatsApp and call Faan on Mon 6 Feb, and was actually rep**** to by Henry Harber at WBC corporate. And only then did things start to happen. We immediately got a call from the PE branch general manager, Bartel Wolmarans, who apologised and said he'd make a plan. We asked Bartel to supply proof that we own the car, e.g. a license certificate. He did send a photo, and it had WeBuyCars as the owner! We only received the license certificate in Lizanne’s name (and ID #) today Thu 9 Feb, after receiving the car; which is great, except the guys from the local Brackenfell branch of WBC told me that the papers packet should also include a license disc and a plate (with a local code) which they would gladly rivet on for us. Those didn’t come in the courier packet. We got WhatsApp messages, email and then another call from Rhode on Sun 5 Feb and Mon 6 Feb saying again that she had requested the paperwork from WBC PE branch weeks ago and got no response, which we forwarded to Rudi and Bartel. We didn’t hear from Rudi again. After Henry and Bartel were involved, the car was shipped out asap and arrived in Cape Town on Wed. On Tue we got a call from Fabian, the original salesman, who 3 weeks after payment in full finally took responsibility for the whole situation, and said we would get the car Thu if not Wed, and that he would personally fill up the tank with diesel and have the car delivered to our home. Well, the car did arrive in Cape Town on Wed 8 Feb. Bartel called again (and please note, it was only after speaking with Henry 3 weeks after paying that *anyone* at WBC called us of their own volition with status - every time was in response to a call, email or WhatsApp from us) and together we agreed that Thu morning was more convenient for us. Fabian called me soon after that call from Bartel and iterated his promises of a full tank of diesel and delivery to our door. We all agreed on 11am Thu. Early Thu morning, today, the day I am writing this, the car arrived at 8am after Bartel called me again just a few minutes earlier. Wow! What a pleasant surprise (when you receive something that you had not expected). You know, we had so strongly considered asking for our money back, especially if the car were not to arrive, and when Bartel asked me if we did want our money back, I first consulted with my wife, who actually bought the car, and we decided together we wanted our Dream Car. And we are so glad we did. We absolutely love the car. Well, WBC didn’t fill the tank with diesel; nor received the promised license disc or the license plate with the documentation courier packet. We did, however, get a nice card and bar of chocolate and a quarter tank of diesel. Is that enough to make up for 3 weeks of consumer hell??? I put in 60l today after showing the car to our mechanic (of 15 years) who specialises in Land Cruisers and Toyota 4x4. He thinks the car is in really good shape, and so do we. Will we use WeBuyCars again? Not now. Will we recommend WeBuyCars to friends and family? Or to colleagues or my students at university? Again, not now. Why must we call the CEO of a large corporation to get decent customer service? We are still frustrated and disappointed when we edit this letter, and tell our story to others. We really hope WBC learns from this experience and figures out how to make people happy when we buy a car from them online; not just the sale, and not just after-sale - I mean *right after sale support* with daily status and seeing the process through in a professional manner. I would love to spend another hour or two writing out suggestions, but . . . you know what? We have spent enough time the last three and a half weeks chasing WBC PE branch to honour their side of the contract. We need to let it go. WBC ought to know how to run a used car service better than us. It’s their job; not ours. We really hope they learn to do a better job with it so experiences like ours will not be repeated for anyone. Most sincerely, and with good intent to the best of our ability, Bill and Lizanne Tucker, Happy Land Cruiser owners once more!
191 replies
33 months ago
Capitec IT hiccup wreaks havoc with credit card and loan payments around 15 July 2023
Complaint sent to ombudsman on 29 Jul, 2023 with two zip files (that were also sent to Willowbridge Capitec branch) Reference Id-20M4LPNE Capitec had an IT hiccup on or around 15 Jul 2023. That was the day my credit card payment was due. My account is configured to pay the entire amount automatically from my savings account (1935314236) I had even received an SMS from Capitec when the previous period closed informing me the full amount of R29813.82 would be collected on 15 Jul. The Jun credit card statement also said as much. However, due the IT hiccup, only the minimum payment of R1490.69 was debited. I didn't realise this for a couple days because I wondered why I still had so much money in my savings account. On 18 Jul, I emailed clientcarecentre@capitecbank.co.za and got a swift reply with reference #108402855 with the following text: "Our IT team has advised that an error has occurred regarding the credit card debit order collections, however, they are working on resolving the matter as soon as possible. Kindly allow for sufficient funds in your main account for the time being, alternatively, you may make a manual payment via the App. Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience. Thank you for allowing us to attend to your query. Feel free to contact us in future." I thought they would sort it out. But a few days later, on 21 Jul, I received the Jul credit card statement and to my horror, saw that not only had they not taken off the rest of the automatic payment as per normal, they also charged me R782.62 interest! Since I always pay off each month's credit card amount in full, I don't ever pay any interest at all. Then, firstly I paid the difference of R28323.13; and secondly rep**** to the bank's apology email several times without response. Then I tried to follow up with Capitec's WhatsApp chat to no avail. I asked to have the issue escalated to a supervisor and no one contact me via phone, WhatsApp or email. So today, 29 Jul, I went in to the Willowbridge branch. They tried to help but their credit card people (on phone) refused to deal with it, as they cannot do so on weekends? As I was listening, I was baffled that the credit card support could not comprehend what had happened even though she acknowledged knowing of the IT errors; and further, heard from the branch support that this happened to many people with their credit card payments, and also for loan payments, there were double debits, and all kinds of other errors around 15 Jul. Firstly, I would like a) the interest refunded/credited, b) reassurance that I won't be charged any interest moving forward, and c) that automatic monthly payment in full will return to normal. Secondly, I would like to ask that the ombudsman make (a), (b) and (c) happen for *every Capitec client that was affected*. Judging by the response from Capitec customer support by phone, email and WhatsApp, that's not the case and Capitec stands to make potentially millions of rands from *their* mistake from unsuspecting customers and/or customers that don't take the time to complain because of its apparent futility. Lastly, if this really is part of their business model, I would like advice on how to pursue a class action suit against the bank for this predatory and bullying behaviour.
191 replies
39 months ago
open letter about our experience with WeBuyCars
Introduction This letter serves to document our experience purchasing and receiving a car from WeBuyCars.co.za (WBC) from our perspective. We fully realise that buying a car over the Internet entails a physical and virtual distance whereby WhatsApp messages, emails and even phone calls do not necessarily reflect a true picture of what happens on the ground. Therefore, up front, we must emphasise that the events described below, actions and feelings associated with them, are our impressions of them all. Our context We have been saving to buy this Land Cruiser for 15 years. When we met 30 years ago in Arizona, USA, I had a 1976 FJ40 Land Cruiser. We couldn’t bring it over in 1996 when we moved to South Africa because of the wheel column being on the ‘wrong’ side. We’ve driven a 4x4 Toyota Condor for 17 years. When we sold it last month, 2 days later, this maroon Land Cruiser popped up on WeBuyCars. We had been looking for a Toyota Prado or Land Cruiser 76 series for about a year, mostly online and at used car dealerships around Cape Town. After doing that, and also trying to sell our Condor online, both unsuccessfully with very bad experiences all around, a friend recommended we try WeBuyCars. So we did. And our experience has been a sandwich of the thrill of buying a car we had wanted for so long, then frustrating and less than ideal in several significant ways for 3 and half weeks, then the thrill of finally receiving it. Our experience We found this Land Cruiser online on Sat 14 Jan, 2023. We reserved the car on Sat 15 Jan with a reservation fee paid via Ozow. We did not receive any confirmation of the payment. In fact, the car still showed online as being for sale, not a purchase in progress as we had seen for other cars on WeBuyCars.co.za. After we called the salesman, Fabian Rademeyer, at the PE WBC branch to inform him of this, the car was removed from the website. We asked him how much we needed to pay to fully purchase the car, and we did so on Mon 16 Jan. We paid in full, again with no automated email confirmation informing us of the payment/purchase, no invoice, nothing. We asked about shipping to Cape Town and were given a quote from TAC. We accepted the quote and paid them in full on Tue 17 Jan, sending proof of payment, again, via email,, by then to both Fabian and Nina Meaker, whom we find out much later is not a sales executive, but the front receptionist. Fabian assured us we would receive the car in 8-11 days. That was on Mon 16 Jan. A week later, our friend Brian, who had test driven the car on Sun 15 Jan (and discovered a dead battery prevented it from starting, and Fabian quickly arranged a replacement), saw the car in the WBC lot. So we called Fabian and Nina and by this time, a third person was involved, a junior sales assistant named Bradley, and told them again, hey we had paid TAC and the car should be on a transport to Cape Town. By this time, we had filled out and signed a number of forms with WBC via Nina and Bradley. Apparently, a TAC transport did not pick up the car from the WBC depot, and Fabian and Bradley eventually brought it to their depot. Another week later, the car was still sitting at the TAC depot. Rhode Bester at TAC called us Sat 4 Feb (after hours, mind you) and told us WBC PE branch had still not sent the paperwork to her to ship the car to us. She recommended we call the Sales Manager Rudi Bezuidenhout, which we did, and he finally called us back on Sunday or Monday and apologised. Meanwhile, we had registered a case with MIOSA the previous Thursday. We also sent a brief outline of the experience to customercare@webuycars.co.za, whom we had cc’d on almost all correspondence with the PE branch because nothing was happening! Amara Patel from corporate customer care finally responded and said the car would reach us within 72 hours, by close of business on Monday. We told Rudi all of this, and told both Rudi and Rhode that we wanted our money back because we felt like it had been stolen from us. We paid in good faith, and had received nothing! On Mon 6 Feb, I called a lawyer for advice and he advised us to a) call WBC CEO Faan van der Walt to explain our situation since we were not finding joy with PE branch nor corporate customer care; b) what was happening was a breach of contract (that we had signed); c) it would not be in our best interest to sue for our money back because of the legal expenses; and d) the best way to get WBC to learn from this experience would be to send this very letter to HelloPeter.com (which we have done). So I did WhatsApp and call Faan on Mon 6 Feb, and was actually replied to by Henry Harber, at WBC corporate. And only then did things start to happen. We got a call from the PE branch general manager, Bartel Wolmarans, who apologised. We asked Bartel to supply proof that we own the car, e.g. a licence certificate. He did send a photo, but it had WeBuyCars as the owner! We only received the licence certificate in Lizanne’s name (and ID #) today Thu 9 Feb, after receiving the car; which is great, except the guys from the local Brackenfell branch of WBC told me that the papers packet should also include a licence disc and a plate which they would gladly rivet on for us. That didn’t happen. We got email and then another call from Rhode on Sun 5 Feb and Mon 6 Feb saying again that she had requested the paperwork from WBC PE branch weeks ago and got no response, which we forwarded to Rudi and Bartel. We didn’t hear from Rudi again. After Henry was involved, the car was shipped out asap and arrived in Cape Town on Wed. On Tue we got a call from Fabian, the original salesman, who 3 weeks after payment in full finally took responsibility for the whole situation, and said we would get the car Thu if not Wed, and that he would personally fill up the tank with diesel and have the car delivered to our home. Well, the car did arrive in Cape Town on Wed 8 Feb. Bartel called again (and it was only after speaking with Henry did *anyone* at WBC call us of their own volition - every other time was in response to our call, email or WhatsApp) and together we agreed that Thu morning was more convenient for us. Fabian called me soon after that call and iterated his promises of a full tank of diesel and delivery to our door. We all agreed on 11am Thu. Early Thu morning, today, the day I am writing this, the car arrived at 8am after Bartel called me again just a few minutes earlier. Wow! You know, we had considered asking for our money back, especially if the car were not to arrive, and when Bartel asked me if we did want that, I spoke with my wife Lizanne, who actually bought the car, and we decided to keep it. And we are so glad we did. We absolutely love the car. Well, WBC didn’t fill the tank with diesel; nor did the promised licence disc nor the plate come with the licence registration courier packet. We did, however, get a nice card and bar of chocolate and a quarter tank of diesel. I put in 60l today after showing the car to our mechanic (of 15 years) who specialises in Land Cruisers and Toyota 4x4. He thinks the car is in really good shape, and so do we. Will we use WeBuyCars again? I don’t think so. Will we recommend WeBuyCars to friends and family? Or to colleagues or my students at university? I don’t think so. Why must we call the CEO of a large corporation to get decent customer service? We are still frustrated and disappointed when we write and read this letter, and tell our story to others. We really hope WBC learns from this experience and figures out how to make people like us happy when we buy a car from them online. I would love to spend another half hour writing out suggestions, but . . . you know what? We need to let it go. WBC ought to know how to run a used car service better than us. It’s your job; not ours. We really hope they learn to do a better job with it so experiences like ours will not be repeated for anyone.
0 replies
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